Svetlana on Socialism

Recovered from Cache: There is not much left…

“Svetlana indicates that socialist countries, such as Sweden, are hellholes from which the people are desperate to escape.”

I did not. The comment about Sweden (which is not quite a socialist country yet) being a hellhole, was clearly a throw-away attempt at humour.

I expanded to suggest that Sweden risks becoming a hellhole if it refuses to roll back on the socialist policies that are beginning to cripple it. There is plenty of evidence that there are growing numbers in Sweden who feel the same way.

“I reminded her that Sweden was fully 10 slots higher on the happiness survey than the US, and certainly, if you’re going to leave your hellhole, you’re going somewhere better than where you are, right? Therefore, there is a flaw in her theory.”

And I pointed out that the “happiness survey” carries as much weight as previous Danish claims that Denmark was the happiest country in the world given that that particular “happiness survey” was commissioned by the Danish tourist board. I expanded once more to explain my belief (and the common sense) that happiness is subjective for a start. It is impossible to measure. Even if it were possible to measure objectively in some scientific way, surveys based on people’s opinions can never be taken seriously as objective analysis.

I can show you several happiness surveys from the Soviet Union through the 1950s which “prove” by your “logic” that the USSR was the happiest place on earth. I can also show you a Red Cross report from the Nazi ghetto camp at Theresienstadt that show that the Jewish inhabitants were well fed and reasonably happy.

If you do not understand the point I was making then I don’t think I can help you.

“She retorted that she ignores data that doesn’t conform to her thesis.”

Oh stop telling lies. I responded that I tend to be wary of data based on opinion no matter what bias it confirms. I described some experiments I had been involved in at my university which helped me gain a healthy mistrust for opinion based “data.” It is not data at all. It is opinion; and furthermore it is opinion further moulded and targeted to an agenda by whomever words the questions.

“I’m not sure what’s tripping you up there, but perhaps re-reading the entire conversation may correct your understanding.”

Nothing is tripping him up. He read the thread and understood it perfectly. What I said is up there in black and white. You completely misrepresented it. I suggest you did that deliberately and I find that dishonest. But if you were genuinely unable to understand what I was saying then I suggest you read it again and try to understand it rather than simply making up straw man arguments in your own head in order to make yourself feel terribly smug. It is juvenile behaviour.

But I will try to find and link you to detailed analysis I wrote about a year ago about the Scandinavian social model, and how it has affected the various Scandinavian countries. It was based on real measurable data, each point cross checked through several conflicting agencies and referenced. I did not use fluffy subjective data based on people’s opinions and wholly formed by the wording of carefully chosen questions. If I cannot find a link then I will find the original and re-post it.



I work in IT, Community volunteer interested in Politics, support Capitalism as the best economic system for lifting people out of poverty, Skeptical scientist.

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Al Black

I work in IT, Community volunteer interested in Politics, support Capitalism as the best economic system for lifting people out of poverty, Skeptical scientist.